192g without Lipo

impressive - with this motors soo lightweight, never saw such powerfull ultralight. with to bladeprops shuld bee very fast and responsive. a video post would be very nice. i will copy your builds, your droneart build too. awsome to see your unbeatable lightweights, thanks alot for posting, im hoping for more

I changed the motors meanwhile, I needed them for my rooster. but its a monster anyway...

my focus is on lightweight and on 4", nimbleness - steering and power response, both versions are very intresting. whats your experience comparing these two versions and your dronart build about nimbleness? sorry for robbing your time. thanks alot for the videoA.

i plan to try 6s 4inch like https://rotorbuilds.com/build/15436
the dronart frame would be nice, looking for 6s parts which fit. i would try the rotorx 1408 2400kv with 6s and some 2204 6s to compare...
should i also try massive power to weight ratio like your f40-druckbear version or stay focus on weight.

to be honest, the F40 were to heavy and powerfull. I cant get that thing tuned, over 50% throttle, the hole copter started to shake. MAybe the F40s produces too much vibrations to that tiny frame.

The ISO frame is nice, but the Druckbaer is more nimbleness on 4". I think its because of the bigger wiingspan, if you noticed I used the 5" Frame and put some 4" props on it. According to that bigger motor-to-motor span, the props spin alot more free and the propwash reduces. Its also more handy and smoother on that 5" Frame.

I like both Frame, but for a 6S setup I would recommend the Druckbaer Frame. There is also a 30x30mm version of the Druckbaer, so its easier to to get some 6S compatible electronics.

thank you for sharing experience.
yes i notice, cleaner air for all props... i fly old diatone et 160, its a deadcat design unclean air for the rear props, wide carbon arms for single esc... on lightbuilds it fly very nice, but probably only because of the weight. i fly a diatone gtr4 frame, there is more space between props. it is stable in the air, has a good handling, until lipo starts to sag. probably it is the weight...
i fly the pnp diatone gtm-515 (1806 2500kv 20a_esc 190g) i try with hq and dal 4" , but 2500kv on 4s and 4" its not enough rpm. its precise in every rpm but it is less nimble against the featherlight dalprop5051c. but the 5051c killing the bearings and my lipos and flytime shrink to 2minutes and crazy-saggs with my graphene. probably my tune for 4inch isnt well too.

now im confused, i tought near props gives more nimblness but its bad for efficiency and the motors. somewhere i am wrong, your flightfootage is an example and you told it. probably ability to handle the nimbelness in more flightsituation is also an issue, saving esc and cpu - something like this?
am i completly wrong with the nearprop-nimbelness-theory. can you give me another influence? have to figure this out, this question bother me.

i was thinking about the emax mini 2 stack, its 30a 20x20 able for 6s, but i dont compare weight and size already. i need a droneart frame, i will try the 5inch frame with the 4inch and 6s, they are beautifull too. when i find good parts for the droneart4“ frame, i will compare it with same gear and the 5“. druckbear looks much more solid and better to build... i wish i can get them all soon

ok. your theory isnt that wrong. A smaller wingspan is more agile, BUT on the other hand the props are spinning closer togehter. The consequence is, alot more propwash. I´m not a physic professor or so, thats all my experience and my "logical theory" what I think the results are.
What I do on all my smaller quads is, reverse the motor direction. have a look at the video, but the conclusion is:
less "dirty air" for the back props and more thrust on the back props, if you wanna do some turns. KababFPV explains it very good.

In the end I must say, that the Druckbaer flys better than the ISO. There are some pros and cons for both anyway for me personaly I fly more often the Druckbaer than the ISO.

thanks alot for the impressions about your builds and the link about cleanair-propdirection. seems to be specialy intresting for my deadcat frames. agog about figure out characteristic diffrence.
i love the hq4043 so much, allready i never had big propwash issue with it, with 6s power probably i find an end of the perfect hq4043 aerodynamics.