Which props did you use? Are you telling me that you used 2" props on the 2.5" frame? If so, how much flight time did you lose? What 2.5" props did you use before?

A Gemfan 3520, cut down to turn the guards as ducts. I didn't really measure flight time before and after, but I do noticed few % lesser throttle it takes to hover on a fresh pack.
And due to lower pitch, motor has to turn faster, hence less vibration. With higher pitch props, motor is struggling to turn it as high kv motors has less torque.

I'll post it in the next few days on fb. :)

Gemfan props support both 5mm and Tmounts. Do you have a good method to cut down tmount props?

I use DREMEL® Line & Circle Cutter (678).
That bolt there that locks the guide happens to be 5mm, replace it with a longer one(I use long gopro bolt) + 2 nuts to hold the prop down.

That is very good to hear about your progress! I plan to build another one of these again because I really like how durable it is compared anything else on the market. So, what props are you using on it? Are you still using the TBS AIO or did you change to something else?

I don't know exact model name as they are used props and came with the lot I bought recently. But its definitely a 2540 version of Gemfan WinDancer 3052. They look exactly the same.
I plan to cut down a 5125 prop and make the guards as ducts next week. Will see what will happen - higher rpm due to lower pitch, more thrust due to props being closer to guards.
I have no plan of opening them again so its the same AIO, just a pain to work on, but I do like the crsf nano directly soldered to it.

I am tempted to convert it to analog to save weight. It's happy with GP 4(which is the same weight of GP10 Bones that I am waiting). Full GP 6 is just too heavy. So if I lose the digital, and lesser weight of GP bones, I could use 1000mah for more time.

Hey James, still have the issues. Here's what I found, the quad likes it when the weight is biased to either front or rear, not dead center. Jello is at worst when I use a bigger battery without a camera on. I suspect the quad is seesawing when the heaviest load is at dead center hence vibration/jello. I think I need a new and better motor.

But you could try these on your next build. Use a bigger motor or one with the lowest kv. Small motors are designed to spin fast(and high kv), so they have low torque, they can't handle heavy load. Either they are stressed mechanically or could not keep up with esc commands. Using a bigger motors with low kv gives you more torque, so better control at lower rpm.

What do you think?

Sorry to take so long to get back to you because I was out of town, and I hate writing with my phone.

That is interesting that the quad does not perform the best with the weight centered. I would think the uneven weight would cause the heavier end to spin faster and cause more jello. So a balance quad would spin the motor slower and not have as more vibration.

Have you seen the new build I just did, Hurricane 2.5" Cinewhoop HD with TMotors 1604 3800kv Motors? It has bigger and lower KV motors. I was worried about the lower KV motors did not have enough POP as a 4500KV motors, but it actually did well. I was hoping for the same thing that happen when I went with a larger 2205 motors with lower KV on a Shendron Squirt. Typically, I would use a 3100kv 1507 size motor with a 6s, but when I switched to a 2205 2300kv motors it totally outperformed it in every way. The only major draw back would be the extra weight.

So, a 2.5” cinewhoop will be more sensitive to larger motors if you want to stay under 250g. The Tmotor 1604 3800kv might be a good choice because it is only 11.64g with full length wires. For my other 2.5" build I lost about 1g when I shorten the wires to the length I needed.

Same here mate, I had to do that mod even if we are going away the next day, just couldn't stop the urge haha.

On Andy Shen's write up during R&D phase of Squirt, he did get a feedback from Nurk that the drone felt better if he didn't try to balance the drone but mounting the battery far back to compensate for the weight of the gopro. I'm not sure if they try to expalin it.
But my theory is, on smaller drone, if you try to dead center the weight, the drone can easily overshoot itself as it tries to level out front & back, so its kinda seesawing as it try to balance itself. Hence the vibration/jello. I managed to tame it via PIDs but my master multiplier slider is already at 1.95. Seesawing effect definitely a lot less if I put in my gopro4 as weight. Same with the new props too, I had to dial down the multiplier down to 1.65

That is very true about the squirt. I remember reading what Nurk and Andy Shen about balance the squirt.

Thanks, I like to build and try out new quads! Currently my all time favorite cinewhoop that can carry a full size gopro will be the Slammed Squirt v2.1 HD 6s - 2205 2300kv. The Cinelog 35 will be a close second, the only reason it did not beat the squirt is because of the noise level. If you have a Naked GoPro or Bones, you may have other options with a smaller form factor, like a cinelog 25. I just bought a few new frames that I have high hopes for and it may dethrone the Cinelog 25. The 3 new frames are: Snapshot, Hurricane 2.5" (similar to Lumenier QAV-PRO), Hurricane 2" (whole different class because it is a 2" and I never tried carrying a naked gopro with it before). It might take some time before I can finish them because I am still waiting for them to arrive in the mail. :)

Perfect, that's what I thought :) I think I'll slowly start acquiring the parts for the Slammed Squirt, hopefully some of it secondhand. I have a 5" quad but would love a cinewhoop too. Keep us updated on the new frames, very excited to see how they come out!

Hey man, I appreciate all you do for this hobby. Learned a lot from you!
But, you made me even more confused with the above comment. Haha
I have a Squirt V1 and I was contemplating to either let go or convert to a slammed.
And I wanted to build 2 of these Foxwhoop 25 with GP Bones, for indoor flights(mostly real estate). I worry that squirt/cinelog35/apex 3" w/ducts, is too big for what I want to do. For slow and steady cruise kind of flying, no acro at all!
Is a slammed squirt really good enough?
Or is a 2.5" really worth the hassle to get the perfect tune? Just to get the benefit of the smaller drone size and less risk in knocking stuff over on an expensive property.
Is there really a big benefit between overall drone size/width between these two?

I didn't notice much vibration on your gopro, specially because you were flying too fast, I wonder what would it looked like with further tuning suited for slow flying. Its the unbreakable guard that made me really want to get this haha

I'd really appreciate your input on my dilemma. :)

@zacuge the biggest difference that you need to be aware of is the camera you plan to lift. If you have both a Naked GoPro (Or Bones) and Full Gopro then you will be set to use what ever quad that would fit your task. Personally, I would keep both a 2.5" and Squirt because it will depend on the condition, I would choose one of the other. Something you need to be aware of is that you will get more prop wash with the Squirt when you fly indoors in small spaces. For example when you fly slowly down a narrow hallway, it may be more challenging to get a smooth flight with the Squirt because it will push a lot of air around and that air will bounce off the walls and back to your quad.

With the Squirt, I NEVER had any issues with vibration or jello in my FPV feed or GoPro recording. But with the 2.5" quads, it is a hit or miss. Depending on the quad and props, the amount of vibrations will vary. In most cases, you can clean it up in post production software, or even use the GoPro's hypersmooth. Because a 2.5" quad is small and lighter it will be easier to fly through small gaps, especially if you are indoors. Getting a good tune with any Cinewhoop is very important because it will make a huge difference on the handling and footage you record. It is not just the PID Tune and Filters settings, the Rates are equally as important too. The real question you need to ask yourself when flying indoors for a property shoot.... "do you really need a drone to do record it?" Especially if you do NOT need a one shot video, a lot of the time, you can do these shots with a nice DSLR camera.

I do not know much about the Squirt V1 frame, but if you can use the V2 mini ducts and have a 3D printer. I would suggest take what you have now and try and see if you can improve it. Because you will not get much money trying to sell an old V1 squirt.

Thank you! That's it then, I'm converting the squirt to V2 mini. But I'd like to take the challenge of tuning the 2.5 with GoPro Bones for slow indoor flying.
I'm already halfway through understanding all the PIDs settings and done a few but is mostly aiming for smooth/freestyle flying. I have not yet seen an example yet on tuning a drone for slow and cruise kind of fying. I already had low rates, and learned to use curves on controller(open tx) to get more resolution on the stick for throttle control.

The place where I live has lots of lifestyle properties that could benefit from FPV's flexibility in framing the shot in an artistic way(exterior) more than a normal dji drone can do, then swoop in for a tour inside the house. I thought that, whether I do a one shot, or multiple, the process would still be faster(please correct me if I'm wrong), than having a dslr with lots of extra equipments to buy and setup. I will be doing photography mostly, then offer FPV as an addition. There's not much fpv in real estate too in my area so theres that too.

Initially, I was going for Cinelog35 as it is overall smaller width, and can carry a full GoPro. But a really good deal came up with squirt included so I had to buy it and I can't get a Cinelog35 soon enough here in NZ. So I've decided to keep the squirt and build a smaller one for GoPro Bones specific for indoors. Luckily, a local shop has few frames of Foxwhoop 25 available.

I'd be keen for any of these Pavo30, Cinelog30, or any pusher type as they still end up way smaller than squirt, as long as they are way easier to tune than Foxwoop 25. :)

Again, thanks for your inputs. Kudos!

No Problem, good luck with your builds. Let me know if you have anymore questions. As for the Cinelog 35, that was the most difficult one to fly indoors. Plus, it is loudest so it is kind of intimidating. Check this out, I just finished this last night and did my first test flight right now: https://rotorbuilds.com/build/30081

Hey James, how are you liking this latest new build compared to the original 2205 2300kv squirt you liked?

I had a few other people built this same quad as I did with the 2205 2300KV motors and had trouble when using the same tune that I have on it. They were telling me that the motors are running hot and etc. So, I wanted to build another one with the same motors but different stack setup and see if I run in to the same problems. So, to answer your question...both builds feel the same. I did back-to-back flights between the quads and they both are practically identical.

Thanks for the tip, I only left the USB plug out during my test because I will need to plug it in a lot to make changes to the settings. But after I am done, will be sure to tuck that plug away.